[MDB8]

I don't know how many are aware of Adobe's future plans WRT Photoshop/Creative Studio et al, but they are making a dramatic change.

The next version of Photoshop/CS will only be available by subscription. You will not be able to make a one-time purchase. From memory, the estimated subscription price for Photoshop by itself will be $20/month. For the package, $30/month.

I think this policy will mark the end of Adobe and its products. Companies get lost in the jungle when they lose sight of the forest. For example, Microsoft several years ago evolved to the position that we (customers) are put on earth for their benefit. When MS needs some more money, they put out a new OS or new Office package. They reverse the company/customer relationship. From my perspective, MS is on earth to benefit me, not vice versa. (Windows 8 may help MS realize the proper relationship with customers.)

Adobe is heading down the same path. What's good for Adobe is good for Photography. Adobe wants a steady stream of cash and their customers will supply it. Not an approach like - what enhancements can we development which will make our customers' lives easier, but how can we (Adobe) make our own lives easier? Reversal of the company/customer relationship.

The U.S. auto industry is rife with examples of this attitude towards their customers. "What's good for GM is good for the country." It's cheaper to pay the wrongful death lawsuits than to recall and fix the Pinto's potentially exploding gastanks. The car looks sporty, but to replace the sparkplugs the customer has to remove the engine.

Not my kind of policy. I won't be a subscriber.

[opticks]

The software industry is changing (has changed) dramatically since software was purchased in boxes with physical media. Online application stores have changed the way software is purchased and upgraded which, in turn, has changed the way software is developed. It now means upgrades are easier to roll out and distribute which means that fixes (and occasionally new features) can come to the customer as and when they are ready rather than waiting for a full development cycle or, as it used to be, new physical media, boxes, labelling, distribution etc.

It's interesting to see Adobe taking this subscription route and I'm curious to see how it changes their user base (but I don't think it marks 'the end of Adobe').

M

[tdadswell]

Well, the times are a changin...as Bob Dylan once wrote in a song. In all this changin, nobody will find me supporting MS with win 8...ever!!!...but that's one reason why I use a Mac anyway. As for Adobe, it being the industry standard for much of everything...nowadays. They aren't going to disappear anytime soon. A lot of people will feel the same about their new subscription method, but in the end it may just be more of a benefit to the customer than we realize. Firstly, people will be able to budget their money a little easier as apposed to one lump sum amount. CS6 say goes for $699 till now. If we pay $20 per month instead, we end up taking 3 years to pay for the same product while utilizing the money not spent right away on other items, such as camera accessories, lenses, other software, etc. Secondly, Adobe is probably realizing how much they are loosing to software piracy and are trying to make it easier for people to purchase their products so as to win some of them back or gain them in the process. Like it or not it is a win - win situation for all. Though we may not agree with it...it's a comin...and we all can agree... we hate change!!! LOL

[MDB8]

Companies that operate poorly can muddle along - if they have no competitioin and have some useful products. Microsoft is the prime example. They have never innovated anything. They even purchased what they marketed as MS-DOS from a Seattleite (who was given shares and $30,000). They copied Wordperfect, calling it Word. They copied Lotus 1-2-3, calling it Excel. Etc. They copied Windows from Apple (who copied it from Xerox).

But they muddle along in some sort of confused way.

The problem for Adobe is that there will be competition. Bet on it. From Google.

Photoshop is overpriced and when Google strikes, I'll bet that their equivalent product will be about $100. Google didn't buy Nik without a plan for the future.

The problem Adobe has lies in cashflow. They want to retain talent and said talent requires a salary. If Adobe only gets piles of cash when they start selling an "upgrade", then inflows are sporadic and outflows are continuous. Ergo, from their perspective, the best way forward is to charge people monthly. That's what I mean when I write that they are reversing the consumer dynamic. "What's good for Adobe is good for photography."

And it would be naive to expect that the monthly charges will remain constant.

The first company to hit upon this scheme was Norton. I remember when updates were free (yes, I'm old). Then they started charging the exhorbitant amount of $3.50/year for updates. And now????

One of the interesting aspects of this approach lies in portables or laptops. For example, if I go on a photo trip, I carry a small laptop with photo editing software loaded on it. However, if I were unable to access the internet at some location when I wanted to edit photos, then if I needed to connect to the cloud, I would be unable to do editing. If I own the software, I can load it on the PC and use it without connection to the internet. That is, understand that your monthly fee also requires that you pay an internet access fee. As an aside I've fiddled with Shaw's WiFi network, but never found an access point when I really wanted to. My portable devices always find hotspots when I'm in a store, but not when I'm on the dyke at Boundary Bay.

Finally I think human nature is such that people prefer having things, rather than renting them. And understand if you pay a monthly fee for Photoshop, it won't be on your PC, but in the cloud and if you stop paying, you will have nothing. For many, including myself, it may be cheaper to rent a car when I need one, but I still would rather have one. Most rental schemes fail.

[tdadswell]

With Adobe CC or what ever piece of individual software one will use if they choose to, the software product will remain the same as before...installed on a customers computer. The only time the internet is needed is when accessing the cloud, downloading the actual program to install, program updates, licensing, activation and storage of files (if one chooses to with the 20gigs of free space issued). Any other time the customer doesn't need to access the cloud except for updating the license every 30 days or 180 day's without internet access. In other words, if a customer accesses the internet with their computer and the Adobe product, the cloud will update their license every 30 day's. If a customer chooses not to access the internet, they can do so for up to 180 day's without updating their license after which they will then be required to access the cloud to continue using a product. The actual Adobe - Photoshop software resides on the customers computer and can be used without internet access just as before. The only thing that has changed is the way the product is distributed and the way it is purchased.

Apple is also doing something similar with the distribution of the OSX operating system except that they don't require activation...which would make them to much like MScr*p. They are also making the cost very cheap for upgrading though...something that seems to be becoming more common. Even MS is starting to make things a tad more down to earth price wise but they still have a long way to go before they get my $$$...not!!!!

Google has a lot of $$$ to throw around but it will take more than that to change the industry standards that have been in place for ions. Not impossible but improbable. That would mean everyone would have to relearn or adapt to unproven ideals...which would or may lead to financial losses. They will have a tough battle to replace Adobe. IBM tried to beat MS with OS2 and lost...even though OS2 was better written and had better capabilities at the time (except for gaming which MS had in the bag)...I was a user of OS2 and loved it but all good things come to an end, especially when one company has an already founded lead in the market with developers and businesses...namely MS at the time...Adobe now.

[MDB8]

OK. I went to the press release. In turn that pointed to a link which pointed to another link. In this final link, it did state that the applications will be live on the subscriber's device. However, I did think that the wording on the pricing plans was a little weasely. Also, it's not clear how Plug-ins would work under such a scheme. For example, when I installed the Nik Plug-ins, they were added to Photoshop, Elements and Lightroom in one install. What if Photoshop is updated and invalidates a Plug-in? Do I get a rebate? Can I go back to a previous version of Photoshop to maintain the Plug-in?

I am not a fan of the 'cloud' et al and never bothered looking into it. I have had many offers of free online storage from various applications and devices, but have totally ignored them. The only personal application I can envisage for myself is a digital transfer of a large file.

There was an instance of a cloud storage company abruptly closing shop and thousands of people permanently lost their data.

Instead I have two RAID configurations, one within and one external to my desktop.

You (tdadswell) are correct on that point and that does alleviate one serious problem - namely being in the field with no internet access..

I point to Google and Nik again. Nik has about the best Photoshop plugins available. They were priced as such, but when Google bought the company they lowered the price by 70%.

When Canon (et al) included processing software with their digital cameras, I think Adobe became nervous. Their response was to create the Digital Negative format to try to wean digital camera users off of the various proprietary RAW formats and that competing software. I think that's why Adobe doesn't charge for RAW conversion updates et al.

With Canon's Digital Photo Pro software and the Nik package, I could probably do 90% of my processing. I'm sure that Google could fill that 10% void and add some nice features to it. In fact, one idea Google might pursue is to approach Canon, Nikon, Sony, et al and offer to develop and maintain their digital software packages and then add the Nik package et al to each. Then I wouldn't need Photoshop anymore. I could also probably make do with the Nik plug-ins and Elements. I dislike Lightroom which the PR said would continue to be sold separately.

Google might even be more innovative now that more and more cameras have built-in WiFi and GPS, features Google likes. I think a couple of cameras now even have Android built in. Probably Google realizes that the biggest weakness of Photoshop is the steep learning curve. So they may offer a package which is highly intuitive and user friendly. There is a product available that David Brooks tested recently that automatically handles digital processing to a degree he has never seen before. It's called "organic imaging". Google should buy it and put it on Android.

(The most serious attack on Adobe came a few years ago when Microsoft started building a competing package. MS, though, is not really a creative outfit. I actually started on Aldus (?) Photostyler which merged with Adobe way way back - before digital cameras existed and the only digital images were scans of photos/negs/transparencies.)

Sorry this has become so technical and likely boring to most Forum readers. I have nothing more to spout forth on this topic.

[opticks]

Not boring, spout forth... actually nice to see a spirited and reasonably informed conversation about something like this (without resort to mudslinging).

(In the spirit of full disclosure, I work in this industry)

[tdadswell]

I agree, it's nice to have good conversation (without the mudslinging...LOL). It's definitely not boring, for me at least.

MDB8, you bring some good and valid points to the subject, as I'm sure many more are feeling also. It will be interesting to see how this all play's out for Adobe in the day's to come. As for the Plugin's situation, I believe the Plugin's will still work the same way as nothing has really changed with the actual program, it's just the way it's distributed and how it's checking for licensing each month. Everything else should still work the same way as it did before. You can (at least on the Mac) install different versions of the same Photoshop and run them at the same time. So if you need to run an older version to keep a plugin functional that is an option...I'm just not sure if it works that way in Windows as Windows is a lot more intimate with software than OSX. I use to repair and build Windows computers as a hobby and a small business but after the usual pulling out of hair after hours of troubleshooting I finally gave it up. I feel a lot better now and put more time into photography instead.

Cloud storage is definitely the here and now, and it seems to be the way everything is going. I don't think you will need to be concerned with Adobe folding up their Cloud services unless it gets replaced by something even better. They (like everyone else) are putting a lot of effort in the service to streamline how their software is distributed and activated (this saves them a lot of money that would have normally gone to making hard copies of the products and manuals).

I hope everything works out for you, and that you can still use the product with the NIK software. I think you'll have no problems with the new system if you choose to use it.